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German analyst and strategist Frank Schwalba â€“ Hoth: â€œThe Minsk Group has proven that it is not really effectiveâ€

25 June 2013 09:29 (UTC +04:00)

Anakhanum Hidayatova – APA. APA’s interview with European political analyst and strategist Frank Schwalba – Hoth.

- Mr. Frank Schwalba – Hoth, how do you see the level of current Azerbaijani EU relationship?

- First let look in general in European Union. The European Union is not a stage, is not a federation, is not a confederation it is something totally new. And, therefore, the EU is more driven by values than by interests. Azerbaijani policy like US, Russia, China, South African policy is driven by national interests. In EU we have very often conflicting interests. Look on the Balcan crisis where German, British, Italian interests are not the same and therefore we have developed a policy of values, certain values which we defend, and for country dealing with European Union very difficult because on interest you can make a compromise like on an Arab camel market when you buy a carpet in Tehran, but on values it is very difficult to make a compromise therefore it is very difficult to deal with European Union. That is the first, second remark on EU we have made our self experience that it is very productive to have transnational cooperation, regional cooperation. We have seen that stupid Germans, French during last century three times had war, you can overcome it by cooperation and therefore our idea for the South Caucasus is cooperation between the different countries and therefore in whatever moment we will try to foster this idea of cooperation and we want more or less the same relationship to all the three South Caucasus Republics. We wouldn’t totally float with one and elect the other we want more or less equal intensity in the relations. That is EU Foreign Affairs Policy. Now, Azerbaijan’s foreign policy. You are at the crossroad between Europe and Asia, Russia and Iran, there are US and Israeli interests link to your country. It is totally normal that in one hand we work and cooperate on natural recourses, on the other we critisize aspect in human rights. I think you need more grasp opportunities which EU offers. For example exchange of students, cooperation on research, not only energy related projects but other areas in research and cooperation. I think it is necessary to be more present on the European level because with it is now 28 countries when Croatia will join offers a lot, lots of possible partners and understanding. It is not necessary in politics to find friends, it is necessary to find people where it is relationship based on mutual respect, and if you have mutual respect you can even overcome a problem. And then you will see that EU is a stable partner and unlike the US who changes it’s friends as other people changes their dress or their shoes unlike the Russia who still want to dominate not only the Northern, but whole of the Caucasus.

- As you know South Caucasus is full of conflicts, do you see the settlement of these conflicts in the near future or we need even more time than we expect?

- A Chinese proverb says: ”Nothing is as powerful to make a hole in stone than the permanent drop of water on garnet”. And it is the same on Nagorno Karabakh. There is a conflict between self-determination and territorial integrity and all EU resolutions always said respect territorial integrity and self-determination and therefore I think it is necessary sometimes to start with small steps – confidence building measures. If you look on the elite snipers the elite people who are in some places only 50 or 100 meters away, then you can even see the other person that you take away this top terror, shooting persons of two sides a little bit far away if you find an agreement with territories which are not Nagorno Karabakh, but the other provinces around NK which are occupied by Armenia as well to find an agreement on them not that it would mean to except Armenian domination on NK but a first step is negotiations on this, if you put pressure on this on Armenia, they would have a lot of problems to justify why they have occupied so many provinces around NK. It needs to find a way of guarantee for Armenian speaking people who lived and live now in NK to have a chance of continuing living there, practice their language, practice other things. But there were so many models in the world how you can live together. Look on the Aland Islands, this was in the 20s a miracle how you can you find a way out of this conflict between Finland and Switzerland owned this Islands and it worked and works until now. It means that in international policy there is never a situation which is unsolvable.

- You said that EU supports the principle of territorial integrity and self-determination principle. Don’t you think that EU leads the policy of double standards on Azerbaijan, at the end of day, Armenians self determined on Azerbaijani territories and made about one million of people to leave their homes?

- Armenian part wants one of the principles to be taken out, Azerbaijan wants one of the principles to be taken out. However, we in EU will continue always with this “twins” and every resolution on the South Caucasus you will find these two principles. And it is on the players on the ground and possibly with the honest blockers hip of the European Union to assisting something but the will always to come from the countries concerned.

- Does Azerbaijan need the OSCE Minsk Group?

- The Minsk Group has proven that it is not really effective it should be replaced by another mechanism possibly a group of elders, a group of experienced people.

- How close is modern Azerbaijan to EU standards?

- It is not European standards, it is global standards on values, on human rights, on openness, on transparency. No country in the world is perfect, my country Germany is doing lots of things which shouldn’t do, but I think all countries should be able to criticize productively its own leadership with the aim of not being unjust to the leadership. But every leadership in the world needs pressure to be good and better. I am totally confident that Azerbaijan is on the right way. In Germany we needed 50 years after the Nazi time to have this open-minded structure. Why should it be quicker in the post-Soviet country? It is the question of time and time is resolving a lot of issues.