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Mahmud Karimov: â€œItâ€™s exact that Shaumyanâ€™s body was not in Sahil Park mass graveâ€

20 April 2009 09:56 (UTC +04:00)

President of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences Mahmud Karimov interviewed by APA

-How do you evaluate last year activity of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences (ANAS) having 9000 employees?

-Last year was very important for ANAS. Several significant orders were issued on the development of science in 2008. I would like to note especially President Ilham Aliyevâ€™s order on â€œDevelopment strategy of Azerbaijani science in 2009-2015â€. State commission was established to carry out this strategy. The strategy has already been prepared and presented to president. This is an all-round document. Plan of measures have been prepared to carry out this strategy. Last year AZN 1 million was allocated from the Presidentâ€™s Reserve Fund for launching expeditions. AZN 1 million was allocated to restore things and buy new materials for the Museum of History, AZN 5 million was allocated to repair Shamakhy Astrophysical Observatory and buy new equipment. Salaries of ANAS employees were increased by 25 percent. These orders show the presidentâ€™s special attention to the science.

-When will reforms start in ANAS?

-The strategy envisages monitoring of scientific-research institutions network. This will make available to determine what structural changes will be made in ANAS. The strategy also envisages qualification of scientific employees and improvement of logistics. If the strategy and plan of measures are approved, we will immediately start reforms. Present scientific situation should be studied first of all. The activity of every scientific-research institution should be assessed. The efficiency of scientific-research institutions should be examined. Several normative legal documents should also be adopted in connection with the reforms. These documents will be prepared soon, because the reforms require adoption of new laws.

-The reforms also envisage staff reduction â€¦

-Yes, they do. But we consider that reduction can not be made just for the sake of reduction. It should be grounded, because we do not have mechanisms to carry out staff reduction. Attestation of scientists does not make it available. It is possible to change the post as a result of attestation. It is impossible to dismiss as a result of the attestation. It requires new legal documents so that we can have legal grounds to carry out reduction. On the other hand, we should determine for ourselves how many scientific employees there must be in the country. According to UNESCO recommendations, developed countries should be 50 scientists per 10 000 people. There are 20 scientists per 10 000 people in Azerbaijan. If we reduce the staff, we will reduce this figure. How much is it expedient, if we want to establish a developed state? If we want to be an educated and developed nation, we should protect science and create all conditions for scientists.

-How much is the average monthly salary of the scientists working in ANAS?

-The average monthly salary of scientists is less than AZN 150. I think this is unbearable.

-Do you think scientists can live and engage in normal scientific activity on this salary?

-A scientist can neither live nor work efficiently on this salary. Thatâ€™s why, scientists are obliged to work and earn money in another place. They are obliged to do it. If scientists had normal salaries and working conditions, they would not have worked in other places. Some scientists teach in other places, some tutor. Sometimes we are reproached that employees are not at work from 9.00 till 18.00. If they sit in the academy all day long, they can not support their families. I think it will change gradually. Salaries are increased year after year. Our international coope5ration is now saving ANAS from this situation. Due to this cooperation, we can get extra allocations. Scientists can get extra salary due to these grants. By participating in joint programs, they can get extra salary, go abroad and carry out scientific research work. Last year about 600 scientific employees were sent abroad to attend various scientific conferences. Before, we had no such opportunities.

-â€œBrain drainâ€ tendency accelerated in Azerbaijan some years ago. What is the level of this problem now?

-This tendency has reduced. There are very few brain drainers now. There is no problem of â€œbrain drainâ€ in Azerbaijan now. On the contrary, we stimulate young scientists to go abroad, of course on condition that they will return. We want them to work in the leading scientific centers and gain experience.

-But the process of juvenation is not felt in ANAS. How many young scientists have come to the academy recently?

-The interest of the youth in science has not passed yet. There is great competition during the admission to the post-graduate courses. Sometimes five or six apply for one vacancy. We want to involve young scientists to work, but we have very few vacancies. We do not have vacancies to provide young scientists with work. It would be very good if we could pension off old scientists and recruit younger scientific employees. But we can not pension off old scientists, because their pension is very little. If their pensions were equal to 80 percent of the salaries, most scientists would have retired on a pension themselves. Unfortunately, the number of old scientists in the academy is not little.

-How old is the oldest scientist of the academy?

-The oldest member of the academy is 96. Directors of some institutes are 80 years old. This is not pleasant. It would be better to involve younger scientists to the academy. But because of the above-mentioned reasons, the old do not retire on pension. Generally, there is ageing process in the academy. 20 years ago candidates of sciences were 35-40 years old, now this figure reached 50. Doctors of science are 60-70 years old.

- Is the spring census considered to be implemented in the new strategy?

- Yes. There are certain measures to be taken in the new strategy. We have to take measures for rejuvenation of the Academy, but at first we have to secure the social protection of the scientists. I think that the scientists, who take the administrative posts, should be at most 65-70. This issue can also be approached individually. If the scientist has scientific achievements and a great school, let him to work.

-You had to ask the President to resolve the housing problem of the young scientists.

-It is our most painful problem. It is a problem of not only the young, but aged scientists as well. We donâ€™t know how to resolve it. We have only residential hostel. It is almost out of control. We canâ€™t to accommodate the young scientists there and canâ€™t move anyone from it. Therefore the condition is hard. The issue should be resolved by any way.

-Are you satisfied with the activity of Azerbaijani scientists against the Armenian propaganda on a world scale?

-It needs to be more active in this field. The Institute of History holds large campaign via Internet. The Human Rights Institute and the Institute of Philosophy and Political-Legal Researches are also active.

-The Academyâ€™s most strategic institutes like the Institute of History, Archeology and Ethnography, the Institute of Oriental Studies have no their websites so far.

-It is not normal when the institutes have no websites. The institutes of natural sciences have their websites. I am demanding all institutes to launch their websites. It is impossible to provide normal activity without the website.

-How are the researches of 26 Baku Commissars? Does the Academy of Sciences have new findings?

-The researches are going on. The Institute of History will publish soon several articles on this issue. Very interesting facts, telegrams and correspondences were found. A TV program is prepared about the researches. I donâ€™t make detailed reports on this.

-Were those, whose bodies were not found in the Sahil Park, identified or not?

- Itâ€™s exact that Shaumyanâ€™s body was not in Sahil Park mass grave. Two others have not been identified yet.

-The results of Academyâ€™s work related to the mass grave in Guba are also under the threat. The last year torrents removed one of undermines. Can the Academy ask the relevant organizations to build museum in the mass grave area?

-The Academy asked them and made its proposals for several times. The Academy resolved all issues depended on it. Unfortunately there is still no museum in the mass grave are we found. It will be better to take measures to save the mass grave. Even I am proposing to launch a criminal case on the facts found there. The issue should be investigated more deeply and be evaluated.

-What is your opinion about the call-up of masters to the military service?

- I have univocal opinion. I am against the call-up of masters. They should have deferment right. They have to draw duty after graduation from the Masterâ€™s program and post-graduate studies program.

-What resources are allocated from the state budget to the science? Are you satisfied with these resources?

--There is a big growth in the volume of state budget allocations for the sciences as against the previous years, but it is not satisfactory yet. The development of sciences has its rules. If the scientific allocations are less than 2% of GDP, the science will have no impact on the economy. In our country, these resources are 0.2% of GDP. If we want to make the science more useful for the economy, we have to provide it with relevant budget. This figure exceeded 2% in the European countries. We canâ€™t develop the science up to the necessary level with such funding.

-How do you think, what spheres are most-developed and what are the less-developed in the Academy?

-The Earth sciences are always strong. The sphere of informatics is also not lagging behind. We have great achievements in the sphere of linguistics, literary studies and philosophy. The spheres, which need in the strong scientific basis and equipments, are lagging behind. We have a lot of talented scientists in the fields of Chemistry and Physics. If we have strong material and technical basis, we can conduct the high-level researches. It is encouraging fact that the Academy is funded for two years in succession to purchase the laboratory equipments. Two million AZN was allocated last year. We have already purchased these equipments and will bring it this summer. This year we received 10 million AZN for the equipments.

-Sometimes the people complain about the activity of High Attestation Commission and delaying of granting the scientific degrees. What is the Academyâ€™s president thinking about that?

-Sometimes we blame the High Attestation Commission, but the research works are evaluated at first by the defend councils. The councils allow the weak researchers to defend their works and then we are blaming the High Attestation Commission. The leading scientists are working at the Academy, but due to some reasons most of the defend councils are subordinated to the universities. These issues concern us. The Academyâ€™s scientists prepared 18 Doctorâ€™s and 127 PhD dissertations last year. One of the problems is that the number of dissertations is delayed at the High Attestation Commission and they are delaying this process artificially. May be they have their own polices and they think that the country canâ€™t have so many doctors and it need to reduce their number. One of the concerned issues is that the most of dissertations are related to the spheres of economy, legal studies and literature, but not the exact sciences. One of the reasons is that it is possible to defend the dissertation in those fields without researches. It is not secret that the number of researchers are asking other people to write dissertations and paying them for that. Today every official or member of the parliament wants to be a scientist. They are not able to conduct research works and therefore they are paying for dissertations increasing the number of works submitted to the High Attestation Commission.