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Christoph Bergner: If the Karabakh problem is not solved, it may cause global dangers

12 February 2007 15:04 (UTC +04:00)

Parliamentary State Secretary at the Federal Ministry of Interior, Bundestag MP and German-Caucasian Parliamentary Group of Bundestag, Christoph Bergner was interviewed by Director of Azerbaijan Culture Institute named after Nizami Ganajavi in Germany Nuride Ateshi for the APA

- Azerbaijani President is going to visit Germany in a few days. What do you expect from this visit?
- Azerbaijani Presidentâ€™s visit to Germany during Germanyâ€™s chairmanship to the European Union is of great importance. This visit will contribute to the relations between the two countries and Azerbaijanâ€™s integration into Europe. Azerbaijan should have a great role in Neighborhood policy. I also expect negotiations on the development of cultural, economic and political relations. I want to see Azerbaijan as a civil country where the rule of law is ensured.
- How do you assess the current situation in the Caucasus? How do you see the settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict?
- The Karabakh conflict is a frozen, unsolved conflict in the South Caucasus. For me only Minsk Group can find the settlement of the conflict. Besides, I think we have no alternative. But we should confess that though Minsk Group has been dealing with the conflict for a long time, it could not achieve successful results. On one hand, the world community is concerned about the conflict, on the other hand it is very difficult to give new proposals to the settlement of the conflict. I am for the OSCE Minsk Group to continue the work. At the same time, the presidents of the two countries (Armenia and Azerbaijan) and other officials should continue negotiations.
- You said the Minsk Group fails to achieve progress. In this case, do you think it is right to charge the Group with dealing with the peaceful settlement?
- Surely I am not satisfied with the current situation. But I think the parties to the conflict will reach an agreement through the mediation of the Minsk Group. I see no alternative at present.
- Of course, the Nagorno Karabakh settlement largely depends on power states in the OSCE Minsk Group â€“ the US and Russiaâ€™s efforts. Do you think these countries are interested in the settlement of the conflict and do their best, or impede this process deliberately?
- As a person aware of the problems in the Caucasus, I can say that this conflict is a part of interests. I should not say, only the US and Russia have interests. Iran and Turkey also have interests in the region. All this influences the Karabakh problem, as well as the other problem in the Caucasus â€“ Abkhazia and impedes the settlement. Though Russia and the US do not want to reheat the â€œfrozen conflictsâ€?, they fear to loose in their positions concerning the settlement. But to interfere or support the problem can cause problems for the US and Russia. Russia supports Armenia at present. But I am sure that no matter what Russiaâ€™s position is, the parties of the conflict can reach an agreement and solve the problem themselves.
- Do you think that new format should be applied to solve this problem? For example, what do you think about the enlargement of the composition of Minsk Group? Some people think if Germany joins mediators, it will assist the settlement of the conflictâ€¦
- We want our relations with Germany to be in good terms, but we have traditional relations with Azerbaijan. I am against of enlargement the composition of the Minsk Group. I do not think we can solve the issue by enlargement of the composition. The presidents of both countries can only solve the conflict and pass resolute decision. One of the issues that I am engaged in is the problem of national minorities. May be my ideas will not assist the settlement of the conflict, but I know exactly that if national minorities living in the South Caucasus are not respected, then there will be no stability in the region. My main target is national minorities living in Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Karabakh issue is also one of those issues. It is necessary to give autonomy to Karabakh and respect minorities. Actually, Karabakh can function in cantonal regime. This is my personal idea arising from working principles and duties. As far as for me all nations should live in one frame and communicate with each other.
- Armenia isolates itself from all international projects by occupying Azerbaijani lands. How do you assess Armeniaâ€™s non-withdrawal and reject of international norms?
- If we are speaking about relenting, I wouldnâ€™t like to put all responsibility on Armenia. Both sides have role in this situation. To accuse one side will not lead to the settlement. On the one hand to Armenians living in Nagorno Karabakh want to archive self- determination, on the other hand the occupation of Azerbaijani lands, especially Lachin corridor. Germanyâ€™s official position is respecting the borders of the both countries, forced change of borders is inadmissible.
- Armenians have banished Azerbaijanis from their lands, killed many of them. About one million Azerbaijanis have become refugees and internally displaced persons as a result of Armenian aggression. Armenians are illegally transferred to these lands. In this case, why should they enjoy all rights but Azerbaijanis be deprived of common rights?
- The structures of the nations existed in Nagorno Karabakh during the reign of the USSR, conflicts aroused when the struggles for independency began. There is no doubt that if the majority had right to vote, Armenians would have achieved this right. Internally displacement is related to that.
-No! Majority of people living in Nagorno Karabakh were Azerbaijanis. A 100-year-old census still remains in archives. Over 80 percent of people living there were Azerbaijanis and 20 percent were Armenians. Historically, Nagorno Karabakh has always been a part of Azerbaijan.
- Donâ€™t be offended for this opinion, but it is not the main point that Karabakh is ethnically territory of Azerbaijan. My historical knowledge doesnâ€™t let me to agree with your points. It is clear that the solution of the problem was kept closed in the soviet period. When I analyze the events during the Perestroika, I see only violence by armed forces against people and events. I was a witness and participant of many events, talks and discussions during my leadership of Bundestag Caucasus Friendship Group till two years ago. Future interests should be seen. And they stand for the cooperation with the European Union which depends on stability in the region. The self-determination of the nations should also be focused on, but the main issue is to protect the territories and to restore status quo. Yes, this is a difficult but resolvable conflict. I may be unsolved if the parties make inadmissible statements. International community and Europe impose responsibility on us. Karabakh conflict is one of the problems from Arabic countries to Africa. We must solve the problem no matter how, or it may grow and cause more global dangers. We canâ€™t shirk responsibilities and duties.
- So, you still hope the problem may be solved peacefullyâ€¦
- We have no right to backtrack.
- What do you think of cooperation of Azerbaijan, Caucasus with Germany?
- Germany showed initiative for Caucasus region to be admitted to European Neighborhood Policy. Most EU member states didnâ€™t support the project, but Caucasus is a very important region for Germany. We may be active by pursuing a good neighborhood policy and working out national projects. I think it is very good that programs worked out for the development of the region take the Caucasus as a whole. Germany, as an important part of Europe, wants a larger conception to be prepared. Certainly, there are economic interests as well. The Caucasus is a very interesting region for cultural relations. Germany is interested in cooperation with the entire region and it is of great importance to solve the main problems.
- And we need support by Germany and Europe for the solution of the main problem.
- It shouldnâ€™t be considered that I support Armenians. When I tell Armenians that Azerbaijanis should have ways to come Nakhchivan, they understand that I support only Azerbaijanis. If to take only principles, belief and slogans, the problem has little chance to be solved, believe me! Iâ€™d like to mention German politician Vimmerâ€™s saying â€œIâ€™d rather drink a cup of coffee than racking my brains over Karabakh conflictâ€?. It should be taken seriously. European German politician is waiting for you to take a step.
- Minsk Group co-chairs have many times stated that a window was obpened in the settlement of the conflict in 2006. But no peace came although we were looking forward to it. Do you think peace accord will be reached in 2007?
- I donâ€™t believe power states want the region to remain in such a tense situation for long. I donâ€™t think the tension serves the interests of the US in the region. I wish the conflict reach the solution in 2007. But I donâ€™t see positive impulses to accelerate the settlement process. You should make these impulses. I think both countries should prevent increasing emotions of their nations. I say frankly that it would be good for powerful figures in the region to reduce the emotional tension. I hope the Karabakh conflict will be peacefully solved soon and Azerbaijan become a powerful and reliable partner of Germany. /APA/